Things I have trouble with when writing
Jul. 2nd, 2013 08:04 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
And I'm just wondering if anyone else does too, and how they have dealt with it. Very happy to take advice/counsel from experienced writers or those who are good at the following, or discuss with others who also have found these hard:
1. Similes and metaphors. This is the biggest one. I know I don't put nearly enough of them in - and they're so wonderfully effective if you can do them well. I find it hard to think of good ones, and tend to repeat things like 'his temper simmered, a bomb waiting to explode,' which I think are probably quite yawnworthy at times. I also find s's and m's in the tf universe quite challenging because you can't use the organic natural world ones as you would in humanfic. Things like 'a nascent beginning, like a bud unfurling' simply do not work!
2. Resisting the temptation to describe people's feelings in too much detail instead of letting the the reader draw their own inferences. Describing body language as opposed to saying "he felt this ..." or "he shuddered, thinking of X..." I'm getting better but I still slip up and have not quite gotten the balance right.
3. Descriptions of places. Working out how much detail you need and slipping enough in to engage the senses without it dominating all else. Sometimes I struggle with where to put descriptions in, too.
There's others, but that will do to be going on with. All views gratefully received :DDD
1. Similes and metaphors. This is the biggest one. I know I don't put nearly enough of them in - and they're so wonderfully effective if you can do them well. I find it hard to think of good ones, and tend to repeat things like 'his temper simmered, a bomb waiting to explode,' which I think are probably quite yawnworthy at times. I also find s's and m's in the tf universe quite challenging because you can't use the organic natural world ones as you would in humanfic. Things like 'a nascent beginning, like a bud unfurling' simply do not work!
2. Resisting the temptation to describe people's feelings in too much detail instead of letting the the reader draw their own inferences. Describing body language as opposed to saying "he felt this ..." or "he shuddered, thinking of X..." I'm getting better but I still slip up and have not quite gotten the balance right.
3. Descriptions of places. Working out how much detail you need and slipping enough in to engage the senses without it dominating all else. Sometimes I struggle with where to put descriptions in, too.
There's others, but that will do to be going on with. All views gratefully received :DDD
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Date: 2013-07-02 01:02 pm (UTC)If I have a POV character, I try to keep in mind what terms are available to them. So Scrapper might think of someone hard to read as a part of a blueprint that doesn't fit, and Kickback might think of them as a cube of fuel you don't realize is rancid until you bite into it, things like that.
2. This is something I struggle with too. When I pare down the description of emotions, I'm never sure that I'm getting them across. One thing that helps me is to kind of act out the scene. Like, put myself in the character's headspace and imagine what I'd do in their situation, then think of how to describe what I just did. Another helpful thing is, if they have any good, emotive scenes in canon (and let's be real, in this fandom that's a big if), to rewatch those and see if they have any characteristic gestures or habits.
3. I definitely know this feel. If I didn't make myself describe the surroundings, most of my stories would probably take place in a featureless void. This is another thing where having a POV character makes things easier, because then I can just report what they notice. Like if they're in a new or alien room, its most striking features, or if they're somewhere familiar, that it's like it always is, or it's changed in X, Y, and Z ways.
It's harder when I'm using an omniscient third person narrator. I usually try to put a sentence or two of description whenever I move the action to a new location, and keep it to a sentence or two. I try to think of what the state of the room conveys as well as what it is. So like, "The room was tidy; it wasn't much lived in," vs. "Magnus had kept the room clean."
I'm going to be watching these comments, because I could definitely use some advice too!
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Date: 2013-07-03 03:41 am (UTC)Yes, being inside a pov character's head and describing how they might see something is a good one. I must remember that, also with respect to what you say about expressing feelings. Very helpful. I'm getting better at 'getting into character.' I think there's an art to it. I'm completely self taught in writing so some of these things have been slow to dawn I think!
I think that's something of a key isn't it with pov writing, cos it sorts out the surroundings thing too. You can add elements that contribute to whatever you are trying to put across?
And oh please yes, I didn't even put that on the list, but somebody tell me how to write good narrative. I really admire writers that have that technique, its all narrative but they dive in and out of multiple pov's. I find that really hard to do without getting overly bogged in one!
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Date: 2013-07-02 01:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-07-03 03:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-07-02 02:49 pm (UTC)As for describing peoples feelings... Hm, I usually use a mix of the POV character simply thinking about what they feel and showing those emotions through non-verbal language. I prefer to spell some things out plainly, because I'm not sure how smart (or dense) my readers really are when it comes to reading the subtext/between the lines ^.^" Because when I was younger myself, I missed many hints, just didn't pick up on them and got bored by many books that I now love, and not everyone is very empathetic.
Descriptions are tricky. Do you know why I never made it farther into 'Lord of the Rings' than 100 pages? It was because Tolkien talked too much about nature for my taste and that bored me to tears ^_^" But almost everyone else loves the books to pieces... So, tricky. When I started writing, back when I only wrote in German, I put in lengthy paragraphs of descriptions, even ones that were totally unnecessary to drive the story forward. Now I give the readers enough to know where the character is, but in the end, how many descriptive passages I use depends heavily on the POV character.
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Date: 2013-07-03 03:51 am (UTC)There are a lot of descriptions in LOTR. LOL and I love those books - maybe that's why I always think it would be good to inject the odd amazing description here and there without overdoing it!
Does that mean English is not your first language? Wow - I'm always awestruck by that, especially when I never would have known :DD
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Date: 2013-07-06 01:35 pm (UTC)I had a feeling you would say that about LotR LOL
No, my first language is German - and thank you for the compliment; that means my English teachers must have been doing something right over the years ;)
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Date: 2013-07-02 05:37 pm (UTC)2: I write in 1st person by default so this is something I've never had trouble with while in that mode, however if I move to 2nd or 3rd I do have trouble. Without being inside a characters mind I can't express the emotions using their body language etc as easily.
3: Again, I'm fine in my 1st person as the char see's and interacts with the surroundings. Move into a different mode and I skip over it.
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Date: 2013-07-03 07:35 am (UTC)2. I used to write a lot of IP, and it is easier in some ways. I have not written IP present tense - is that even easier? I must try, I keep meaning to.
When I first switched from 1P to third person or POV I did sometimes used to write the scene as IP and then 'convert' it. I still do that occasionally - it can help with getting 'in character.' Do you do that at all?
All these questions!
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Date: 2013-07-03 09:55 am (UTC)2: I have no idea. 1P Present is my default (because I'm strange like that). Past tense I can do but I have to go through and edit to catch the present tense stuff that slips in without me noticing.
3: I do that without trying :P I have to edit if I write 3P because there will be 1P stuff in there.
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Date: 2013-07-02 06:57 pm (UTC)Like I'm one to talk, dskljdsfI DUNNO mostly I agree with bears on this one, ignore my babbling.2. I dunno, I do this too. :T Probably something I should work on as well. But whatever I describe, I try to make it make sense with the character... I guess? I used to have a bad habit of projecting my own habits onto characters, whoops.
3. I'm with you here. :( I suck at setting.
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Date: 2013-07-03 04:14 am (UTC)Projecting own stuff is so easy to do too - I think it took me ages to realize you have to get as much 'into character' in writing as you do acting. I don't remember ever being taught that in literature or drama. Maybe it should be obvious, but it wasn't to me!
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Date: 2013-07-02 10:47 pm (UTC)Practice, practice practice - if you can. and don't be afraid to edit or REWRITE the first draft.
Yes, the lessons I learned in English class still apply here.
As for specifics:
1. If I use these, I don't notice them until I reread what's been written.
IMHO, they aren't necessary, unless the bots (and cons) like comparing/contrasting what's happening NOW to what's been experienced in the past - Like when one of them sees something that doesn't fit what they know about, and then when they try to describe it to others.
2. This could be one of my failings: too much focus on the emotions, or a blank canvas.
Sometimes writing down EVERY SINGLE DETAIL of every muscle twitch and aborted arm/leg movements, sometimes forgetting they can add jesters, or emphasis their words with body language.
Hit and miss on the emotions/body movements. I'll get better with more writing of fiction. LOTS of writing.
3. I do enjoy adding unnecessary detail.
So, when the muse hits, I let it go as descriptive and in-depth as it likes, just so I can get to the juicy bits, then, before posting, either cut out the extra words that -while great background and history - bog down the story or aren't relevant NOW. Or I rewrite the scene and find I automatically cut out some (most) of the [boring] stuff surrounding the activity.
Different writers, different authors have different approaches to how they get fics written and published.
The fact you know where your weaknesses are is a good thing - you'll be able to keep an eye on those sections, and ask for specific help when it's needed, instead of waiting someone to point out 'hey this doesn't work right. don't know why, but I struggled reading this part' which is NOT a big help.
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Date: 2013-07-03 04:24 am (UTC)That's interesting what you say about putting in a lot and then cutting it back. I've only just started being able to do that as well. I found a great tendency to think "but I LIKE that so I WANT it in there" regardless of whether other poeple were going to like it or it would really work that well as a whole! Good to have that drawn to my attention again :)
I agree that's not helpful, any more than are negative reviews. Ive been lucky to have very helpful betas :D
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Date: 2013-07-02 11:00 pm (UTC)For human terms... I either try to say "As the humans would say: blah blah" or try to find a cheap equivalent. Usually by placing a cyberterm like -turbo or by relating it to the spark/electricity.
2. I described the actions/reactions. Sometimes I add dialog/thoughts if I'm uncertain that the message passed.
3. Description XD. I don't really use them. I find them boring to read, and thus to write. I take for granted that people know what an office basically look like, so I don't really described it unless it's something different from the common conception. So I might just start with "This office had the particularity of having a missing title in the ceiling. Someone thought it funny to add 'Ninja Exit' under it." So my advice, don't worry about the background unless it's relevant to the scene or that it's really beyond something common concept.
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Date: 2013-07-03 02:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-07-03 04:43 am (UTC)You slip metaphors really appropriately into your writing and that's what i'd like to be able to do - not even think about it and have them be really effective. Instead I tend to sit there with a frozen brain trying to think of something that correaltes with what I'm trying to describe! Maybe its something that just happens with practice? Or more so if you don't think about it too much?
I like the human references, personally, and should maybe use them more. I remember reading ages ago somebody's opinion where they said that phrases like 'he sighed, as he had seen the humans do' were overused in fanfic and rather tiresome. Although I didn't agree, I always think of that whenever I write something similar - which goes to show how negative one person's opinions can be. Its time I moved on from that I think.
You're very good at embodying emotions in actions/reactions too! I am trying to improve on that score :D
That's good advice about the surroundings - thanks :)
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Date: 2013-07-03 05:41 pm (UTC)2. I hate reading books where every character's thoughts are explained in detail, haha, so I try to show what they're thinking/feeling through their words and behaviour instead. It helps that for any one scene I do tend to pick one character and write from their POV, even while in the third-person.
3. I actually love painting locations and environments with words, but to counter the risk of those bits becoming too purple I deliberately try to cut back. I try to use rich language as sparingly as possible, to give those words I do use extra impact, I suppose. Paint with broad strokes, I guess, and pick out only the details that are important. I try to communicate a general "feel" for a place, without taking time to describe every aspect. The story I'm writing at the moment has a lot of new, original (as in coming from me, not the canon/source material) locations, so I'm enjoying the worldbuilding aspect to describing them.
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Date: 2013-07-04 01:35 pm (UTC)What you say in (2) and (3) are exactly how I'm aiming to do it, so its go to know I appear to be on the right track!
Thank you for this helpful commentary <3
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Date: 2013-07-03 07:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-07-04 01:40 pm (UTC)I am getting better at that type of thing. I used to put in a lot more unnnecessary and repetetive detail ^^
Thanks for your help :)
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Date: 2013-07-07 12:45 pm (UTC)It's a hard one to give advice for really, because I don't think there's any "right" way of writing. That's why I very rarely offer to beta anything other than strict grammar or "this is how your fic made me feel" type jobs. A lot of this stuff is down to personal style and preference.
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Date: 2013-07-04 01:07 am (UTC)I know what you mean, with trying to find non-organic similes and metaphors! But I go by G1 rules in my writing, wherein I don't stress too much if it makes sense or not that robots think of things like buds unfurling (maybe they have crystal flowers, that grow and unfurl, too). I also think there's a lot of wiggle room in how much description, or how many metaphors, or details of feelings, etc. you can have and still have a great bit of writing. I tend to think of description of settings as "filler" and skim over it quickly to get to the parts I really enjoy - the interactions and emotions of the characters, but sometimes I'm in the mood to re-read and absorb and imagine every detail (I read Lord of the Rings like this - sometimes just the "good parts" and sometimes I try to pay attention to every word, and find myself marveling over things I never noticed and discovering new tiny treasures of description).
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Date: 2013-07-04 01:51 pm (UTC)G1 is great to write in, yes, because there is a lot of leeway (and not least that plots which would be a bit ridiculous in other verses are perfectly acceptable!) And maybe its OK not to be too cyber-orientated period. Some readers definitely don't like organic metaphors - I've heard them say so - but its that old thng of they don't have to read I guess!
Weather metaphors are good if the setting's on Earth (or another atmospheric planet) - I really admire those who can use these well too. As I do those who make good use of 'space' metaphors.
Thank you for this. It all helps much :-)